192: How to Build and Earn Trust as a Leader with Yoram Solomon
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Trustworthiness may be the most important quality a leader can have. Interestingly, recent studies show us that there has been a dramatic decline in trust from previous generations to now. Trust in other people, in the media, and in the government, are all at all-time lows, and this inevitably feeds into the workplace, too. In this episode, trust expert, keynote speaker and author of The Book of Trust Dr. Yoram Solomon returns to The TalentGrow Show to share his new model of trust and to help leaders build their trustworthiness. You’ll discover the seven laws and six components of trust according to Yoram’s model and learn seven actionable steps you can take to build trust and be trusted. Plus, drawing from his experience as both a former Israeli Defense Forces paratrooper, USAF CAP pilot, and a professor, Yoram shows us in what way trust is relative and situational, and why it’s so important to recognize this. Tune in and be sure to share this episode with others in your network!
ABOUT DR. YORAM SOLOMON:
Dr. Yoram Solomon is the founder of the Trust-Building Institute and author of The Book of Trust and 12 more books, 22 patents, and more than 300 articles. He is one of the creators of Wi-Fi and USB 3.0. Dr. Solomon is a TED speaker and adjunct professor at universities in the U.S. and Israel. His trust-building model is based on years of research and military service, and helps organizations, teams, and individuals build trust, be trusted, and know who to trust.
WHAT YOU’LL LEARN:
In his new book, The Book of Trust, Yoram says that there has been a dramatic decline of trust in the world today. Why is that? (5:05)
What are the seven laws of trust? Yoram gives us an overview (7:14)
Halelly and Yoram discuss trust and reciprocity, and what we can learn from a simple interaction between a child and their parent (10:15)
Yoram talks about the new model of trust he offers in his book, based on six components (12:01)
A breakdown of shared values into three categories (14;23)
Yoram shares what he learned from looking at his own reviews on RateMyProfessor.com, and relates it to his point that trust is relative and situational (15:40)
Part 4 of Yoram’s book is all about taking action, including seven steps everyone can take. What are they? Yoram shares an overview with concrete examples (18:53)
How accountability partners dramatically increase your chances of achieving your goals (22:39)
What’s new and exciting on Yoram’s horizon? (24:41)
One specific action you can take to ratchet up your trust skills (27:08)
RESOURCES:
Get Yoram’s most recent book, The Book of Trust: Build trust, Be Trusted, and Know Who to Trust
Text the word Trust to 21000
Check out Yoram’s website
For Yoram’s take on innovation and culture, listen to episode 72 of The TalentGrow Show
Episode 192
SOUNDBITE Don’t try and do one thing that’s good. Eliminate one thing that’s bad. I included a lot of research, including my own, but research that was done by others, that showed that bad is much stronger than good. So that one bad thing that you’re doing in that relationship that causes you to lose trustworthiness is probably significantly more powerful if you could eliminate that than doing one more good thing in that relationship.
INTRO Welcome to the TalentGrow Show, where you can get actionable results-oriented insight and advice on how to take your leadership, communication and people skills to the next level and become the kind of leader people want to follow. And now, your host and leadership development strategist, Halelly Azulay.
Welcome back TalentGrowers to another episode of the TalentGrow Show. I’m Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist here at TalentGrow. The TalentGrow Show is sponsored by TalentGrow, my company that I started in 2006 to develop leaders that people actually want to follow and that helps to keep all of the expenses of the TalentGrow Show covered and for it to stay free for you every Tuesday morning. Now, I am really excited to bring back a guest who has already been on the show and this time he talks about a new topic or more evolved topic and that is the topic of trust. This is a hot topic, a lot of us are interested in it, and I think that you’re going to really enjoy his perspective. It is super, super actionable, which I love. So, let’s listen to my second conversation with Dr. Yoram Soloman.
LET’S DIG IN TalentGrowers, if you’ve been listening for a while, you might know that every once in a while I choose to bring back a guest. I call them boomerangers, and we check in between they have evolved and have done many things in the interim and created something new that I think will add even more value, and such a guest is here today, Dr. Yoram Solomon. He is the founder of the Trust Building Institute and author of The Book of Trust and 12 more books, 22 patents and more than 300 articles. You might remember him back from episode 72, and in that episode we discussed culture and creativity and innovation and we talked a little bit about trust, but he has really done a lot of different things ever since then. He is one of the creators of wifi and the USB 3.0. Dr. Solomon is a Ted speaker and adjunct professor at universities in the U.S. and Israel, and his trust-building model is based on years of research and military service and helps organizations, teams and individuals build trust, be trusted and know who to trust. Yoram, welcome back to the TalentGrow Show.
Thank you Halelly. Great to be here again.
I am so glad that you’re here. I hope that everybody will later go back and listen to your other episode, 72, well link to it in the show notes, but I don’t want to assume that they have recently listened or ever listened, so I will ask you the same question that I asked at the beginning. How would you describe your professional journey briefly? Where did you start and how did you end up where you are today?
I really started as an engineer and as an innovator. That’s where I have all the patents. I do believe that things happen for a reason and things happening in that path. One of them was the understanding that the technology is not everything. How people use products is what makes products successful. And as I worked with other companies to help them innovate, whether I worked there or outside, I worked with them in innovation and I realized that everything I do to help them or most of what I do doesn’t stick. So what I realized over time was that we were trying to build a building from the second floor. This does not give you a strong building. So one level below that was just about the time when you interviewed me and that’s when I started the Innovation Culture Institute, was when I realized that innovation does not stick if you don’t have innovation culture. But since then, what I realized was that culture or innovation culture is the first floor, and the first floor is not going to be strong if you don’t have the foundation. The foundation is trust. I did mention it back in episode 72, but since then, I realized that I was at the fork in the road and I had to make a decision, whether I stick with innovation culture or move to the direction of trust. I asked about 20 of my closest friends. 19 of them said stick with innovation, but my gut and one of the 20 said maybe you should switch to trust and that’s what I did. Since then, I have started the Trust Building Institute and all of my efforts now focus on that.
It’s funny, just recently I interviewed another guest, Jason Crawford, and he was talking about listening to advisors but also following your gut, so you’re giving a perfect example of that.
That’s good advice.
Good for you that you’re following your gut and following your passion. So you have been very prolific with writing books, and your latest book is called Book of Trust. It just came out and you say in there that there has been a dramatic decline in trust in other people, in companies, in the government, in the media – why? Why do you think that is? What’s behind this disturbing trend?
Several reasons. There is research that was done, Gallup said that trust we had in media went from 72% in the 70s to 32% now. Our trust in government, Pew Research, 77% in the 60s, 17% now. But one of the pieces of research that really grabbed me was the difference between Millennials and Baby Boomers. Because Baby Boomers, when they were asked, “Do you think that people look out for themselves first?” Baby Boomers, 48% of them said yes; 73% of Millennials said yes. When they were asked, “Do you think that most people can’t be trusted? Cannot be trusted?” Baby Boomers, only 29% said yes, most people cannot be trusted. Only 29%. Millennials, 60%. So I think that over time, we’ve become more sarcastic. We’ve become more cynical, and one of the reasons how we educate. As you remember, I’m kind of coming from the background of education. I teach now. I was on the school district board, and I realize that the Millennials, younger generations, trust less. Because they trust less, we see an overall level of decline in the level trust.
Interesting. So it’s the less trustING that is causing there to be less trust. Not that there is less trustworthiness?
Actually, I do think it’s less trustworthiness. I think we’re giving them all the reasons in the world to trust less.
I see. So they’re learning from their life experiencing, learning that trusting doesn’t pay off that well, kind of.
Correct. Yes.
That’s sad.
Definitely.
Good for you that you have created the Trust Building Institute, where maybe you can create some kind of a turnaround of this trend. In your book you describe seven laws of trust. So you say that there’s a way to explain how trust behaves, you were saying, and so I would love for you – of course we’ll link to the book and people should read the whole book so that they can learn more – but what if we can describe just the seven laws of trust briefly?
That is something that has developed for me in the last two years, so after the last time I appeared on your show. What I realized is, trust behaves. Trust has its own behaviors. The first one is trust is continuous. We look to trust as binary – I trust you or don’t trust you – where in fact we need to look at it as how much do I trust you or how much can you trust me? Trust is contextual. In certain contexts, you will trust me. In others, you will not. So there is no just a certain level of trust that you might have in me or I might have in you. It is contextual. Trust is personal. We think of trust as something that happens in a company, but really, trust happens only between two people. Trust is also asymmetrical, up to law number four. It’s asymmetrical, so even when I talk about two people, a trusting relationship between two people, there are two different trusting relationships. I may trust you more than you trust me, because it’s asymmetrical. Trust is transferrable. If I tell you that there’s this person that I know and that’s a good person, you can trust them, you will trust them simply because I trust you and I tell you that I trust them. Trust is reciprocal, and that’s one that I can add more about, but it’s reciprocal not only in the context of I will trust you because you are trustworthy, but you will behave in a trustworthy way if I trust you and I show you, I demonstrate to you that I do trust you. Finally, trust is two-sided. For me to trust you, the trust that I have in you is the product of my willingness to trust people, my trust-ability in your trustworthiness. I’ll put it the other way around, your willingness to trust me or your trust in me is a product of your trust-ability in my trustworthiness. I can’t do anything about your willingness to trust people. You are the sum of your experience. The only thing I can work on is my own trustworthiness. This is where I lead with the book to now let’s talk about how you build your own trustworthiness.
I’m smiling because I’m in a precarious situation here as the host of a podcast where we talk about many subjects about which I’m often the expert in my work, and in speaking and in conducting and facilitating workshops in organizations. I often do teach about trust, and so I’m smiling because it’s very reaffirming to hear that the person who is an expert on trust and wrote a book about trust saying things that are very much aligned with the things that I’ teach. So, yay and good and I’m glad I’m not off base here. I wish we could talk about all of those, but you’re right, we can’t. So let’s dig into the one you mentioned, the reciprocal. I know that I teach people about how there is mirror neurons that cause us to actually watch how other people react toward us and subconsciously reflect back that to them. Is that where you base your assertion about reciprocity?
Exactly. Perfect. When I deliver keynotes or workshops, the question I ask is, when you have a toddler and the first thing they realize is they can stand up and then they can walk and the next thing they do after they walk is they run. The first thing that happens to them once they run is that they fall down. Then I ask the audience, “What’s the first thing they do after they fall down?” Typically my audience would say they start crying. No, they don’t.
No, they look at you.
They look at your face to make sense out of it and trust operates the same way. We tend to think, “You’re trustworthy and therefore I’m going to trust you,” but it’s the other way around again. As I said, if I trust you and I show you that I trust you, you will do your best to live up to that. On the other side, if I don’t trust you and I tell you or I show you that I don’t trust you, you’re going to give up and go, “You know what? That’s okay. I’m not to be trusted. Everything I do is just going to be CYA.”
And everything about all of those laws you described, they’re not silence. Each one kind of has implications and ripples and bleeds into the other one, and that’s kind of a vicious – either a positive or negative cycle. They affect one another, don’t they?
It’s exactly a vicious cycle and it’s funny that you say that because that’s exactly how I describe it in the book. I show this cycle of trustworthiness and then the other cycle of distrust and untrustworthiness. They are cycles.
Very interesting. You offer a new model of trust in your book that is based on six components. You say the components are competence, shared values, fairness or symmetry, positivity, time and intimacy. And you say that this model is based on more than a decade of research that you’ve done, decades of experience as an executive and board member of multiple organizations from startups to million dollar entities, and as an elected official and as a member of the Israeli Defense Forces 45th Airborne Paratroopers Brigade. So tell us more about this trust model.
First, sometimes I’m being asked that question – why do we need another model of trust? Here’s what is unique about my model. There are really two things. One, my model considers the fact that trust is relative. Trust is not absolute. Trust is not universal. It is relative. Trust is also dynamic. It changes over time and this model really addresses … three components address the relative part of it and three components address the dynamic part of it. Through my history, I started by wondering why is there a group of soldiers – I’m not talking about 18-year-old who believe they’re invincible, but I’m talking about during a reserve service so now you’re around soldiers at the age of 29, 30 and 32, and how did they trust you with their lives? What made them trust me with their lives? The other thing is, other than my own experience, I started interviewing people. I interviewed a former Navy SEAL, I interviewed a former police department chief, a chief of a fire department, two U.S. Air Force fighter pilots, one leading divorce attorney, which is interesting the insights she had on this, and by the way, the forward to the book was given by a Congressman with two silver stars, two purple hearts, who flew in Korean, Vietnam, spent seven years as a POW in North Vietnam, flew the Thunderbirds, the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds where his canopy was 18-inches away from 20,000 pound jet of his leader. So I started studying what makes those people in those circumstances trust others?
And I came down to those six components that you mentioned. One of the strongest ones is shared values. Even in shared values, I believe that having to have shared values is important. Shared values, to me, categorize into three – there are some universal and absolute shared values such as telling the truth. Would you ever trust someone who knowingly and intentionally is lying to you? No. Nobody will. Would you trust someone who you know does not care about you anywhere near as much as they care about themselves? No. But, personal and relative shared values are different. See, Halelly, you and I are different people. There are areas where we might disagree to the point that we don’t believe we have shared values. I’ve seen that working as an executive in technology companies, the distrust between engineers who really need data and trust only numbers and business people who operate in much softer skills. The engineers don’t trust the business people, the business people don’t trust the engineers. Then there’s the question of, “Where is our ethical bar?” So there are people who have ethical bars a different levels. The little bar is in the same bar for everyone.
You know, one of the examples I gave in the book is – and it took some vulnerability to do that – I teach a few major universities, one of them here in Texas. Do you know anything about something that’s called Rate My Professors website?
Yes, I’ve heard something about it.
I never knew about that until my older daughter said this is how she is choosing her professors. She goes to that website and she chooses professors and I’m like, “Really? So do I have a page?” We go and dig and I have a page! And I’m looking at this and here is a class that I just taught and one of the students said that “this professor was self-centered, he was very arrogant and everything was around him.” I was devastated. He gave me one out of five when the lowest is one. So it took some vulnerability to actually quote that and put it in the book. However, then I’m looking at the next five. The next five are students that gave me glory reviews. I mean, those were perfect reviews. All of them gave me five. Here’s the funny thing – all of them sat at the same class, at the same time. How does that happen? Because trust and the way we look at each other is relative. To that one student, I’m sorry that I didn’t give him what he needed, but I was not trusted by that student. I was trusted by the others. So trust, and shared values specifically, are personal and relative.
If you think about it, my behavior in the classroom was interpreted by one student as being self-centered or arrogant, and by other students it was interpreted as vulnerable in sharing personal stories.
I see. So it was almost like you were self-indulgent. I’ve heard this before, where I tell a story about myself and my intention is to make myself seem like them or to give an example or to make a point, but someone could interpret my intention if they don’t understand my intention, they could interpret it as me just focusing on myself and talking about myself and so the same behavior can be interpreted in very different ways and by different people. Got it.
Exactly. This brings this whole element of trust is relevant. There is no one thing that you can do right, because what I did in that classroom, I thought was right. Five students through I was right. One thought it was wrong.
You can’t please everyone, that’s for damn sure!
You can’t please everyone. The last part is situational. There are parts of shared values that are situational. So the fact that, Halelly, you and I are facing something that is outside of our relationship, it’s a common enemy. The common enemy can be time crunch, budget crunch, anything like this. It bonds us together. It makes us trust each other more because we have that common enemy. But the common enemy can actually be common competition. Imagine you and I are on the same team and our boss tells us that one of us is going to get promoted as a result of the success of this project. What happens to the trust between us now? Only one of us will get that promotion.
Pits us against each other.
That’s right. So there are situational elements to shared values that are outside of our relationship, but that affect the trust between you and I.
It all seems so complicated, it almost makes you want to give up. It’s really hard. I love that in your book, you’re not just theoretic and by the way it’s research-based, not stuff you make up, But your entire part four of your book is all about taking action and really actionable steps. You’ve got seven steps that you suggest people can take. Let’s walk through those.
Yes. It is really important that at the end, when you read this, you don’t leave the book or my workshops or my keynotes with the feeling of, “It’s too complicated, I’m going to give up.” What I do, those seven steps, the first one is I tell people to identify one relationship. Don’t try to do everything for everyone. Let’s identify one relationship you want to improve.
It’s like baby steps.
Exactly. If there is one relationship where you believe that you are less than trustworthy or as trustworthy as you would like to be, most likely, this is the same problem you have in other relationships too. Once you fix that one habit, you’re going to improve in other relationships.
So choose that one?
Choose one relationship, that's step one. Step two is identify one thing that you are doing wrong. Now, this is an interesting concept. Don’t try and do one thing that’s good. Eliminate one thing that’s bad. I included a lot of research, including my own, but research that was done by others, that showed that bad is much stronger than good. So that one bad thing that you’re doing in that relationship that causes you to lose trustworthiness is probably significantly more powerful if you could eliminate that than doing one more good thing in that relationship.
Give us an example.
In one case, I found a relationship where a supervisor, a leader, was communicating with her employees mostly over email. Now, those employees did not feel that she wanted to be with them, did not feel the body language or the nonverbal communications that were associated with the message that she wanted to convey to them or with everything that’s related to the level of trust between them. And the one habit that I said, “Okay, this is something you need to eliminate – you need to communicate less over email.” And that takes us to the third step, which is choose one habit that would fix it. In that case it was – pardon my language – but get your butt out of your office. And I said, “You need to start walking to those people who work for you and talk to them in person.” That was an important part.
The fourth step is to set a goal. What is it that you want to achieve? For example, in that case, and since I started with that example I’ll stick with it. What is it that we want to achieve? Well, right now, and you start to set a goal, first you need to take inventory of what you’re doing today and what we’re doing today is I’m sending her or she’s sending her employee about 15 emails a week and seeing them maybe once. I said, “Our goal is going to be within this week – and you have a pretty small team – I want you to see every one of your employees everyday. You don’t have to spend an hour with them, but they need to see you face-to-face once a day. That is going to be our goal.”
Step number five, how do you measure and how do you log it? That’s relatively, on a habit like this, it’s relatively simple and I actually created … there is a book I didn’t mention associated with the Book of Trust, I created the Workbook of Trust, and that’s really a book filled with handouts and worksheets that allows you to implement what’s in the Book of Trust.
Nice, so some kind of logging worksheet is in the workbook?
Yeah, actually four of them. So we’re at step number five. We know what we’re going to do, we know how to measure it, we know how to log it. And ASTD did a study a few years ago and they said if you know what your goal is, you have 10% probability of achieving it. Which is terrible! But, if you’re committed to it, now you’re at 25%. Which is still terrible. If you made a plan and you put a timeline to it, now you’re at 50%. That’s as high and as far as you can go by yourself, 50%. That’s still not good enough. What they found was, if you assign an accountability partner, you can raise it to 65% and if you have regular meetings with your accountability partner, it takes you up to 95% probability of achieving your goal. So, step number six is we identify, and I take them through what are the criteria to choose your accountability partner and how are we going to meet on a regular basis, even if it’s on email? And you know, the funny thing is, the person I was telling you about, she’s the CEO of the company and she could not find an accountability partner.
It’s a challenge. It’s very lonely for top leaders.
I ended up being her accountability partner from outside of her company. And step number seven is, how long are you going to have to do that before it becomes a habit? Here again, I lean on research that was done before me. In general, it depends on what is it the habit we’re trying to achieve, but I would say give it 66 times. You’ve heard that study?
Yes. I’m glad you didn’t say 21 days!
No, 21 days is not going to be enough. Here’s how you’re going to calculate it and give it enough time to become habit. Once it becomes a habit, you’re going to eliminate one bad thing. Once you eliminate one bad thing, you improve one relationship. If you have improved one relationship, you’ve improved a lot of relationships you have.
Good. I like it. It’s very concrete, very specific, very actionable. TalentGrowers know I love the actionable tips. So thank you for that. So, what’s new and exciting on your horizon Yoram? What’s got you energized these days?
So three things. The first one is I just got my smart watch, my first smart watch, so I’m really excited.
What kind?
I got the Samsung Galaxy watch.
That’s what David has, my spouse.
Cool. It tells you what the time it is in Israel. Obviously I’m very excited about the book that just came out. There was a lot of work in that book. But the thing that I’m most excited about right now is the program. Up until now, I was offering keynotes and workshops and assessments, and now I have a program. Because here’s what happened. I do everything that I told, I explain this to an organization, they understand the model, they understand the seven steps. I give them the tools, I give them the manuals, I give them the worksheets. And they just don’t do it. What I was asked by some of my clients is to start offering this as a program that includes that component of, “Don’t worry about accountability. I’m going to be your accountability partner and I’m a mean accountability partner.”
Is that your selling point?
Yes! [laughter] My selling point is I’m mean and you’re going to pay for it.
And they clamor to pay you for it.
It’s crazy how the world works. The other thing is, beyond being mean, and a mean accountability partner, I’m also your sounding board. I continue to offer the coaching, so what if it doesn’t work and how do you improve that? That’s the one thing I’m excited about most. The extension into programs beyond keynotes and workshops.
That really helps to transfer and make it sticky. I also find that, when you come in and swoop in and do some kind of an educational event, it doesn’t’ really help people overcome the daily obstacles that naturally come into the way of implementing a new habit, no matter how committed you are to it. So being able to have someone like you in their corner, and creating that kind of follow-up and accountability really makes a huge difference in the level, the extent to which they can actually see the change happen.
Also, sometimes it’s a lot easier to tell me things than to tell somebody who is in the organization.
That’s true, because you’re neutral. Very cool. Thank you for sharing that, and congratulations and here’s to your continued success. We always ask, what is one specific action that listeners can take today, tomorrow, this week, that can help them ratchet up their own trust skills?
It’s an amazingly simple thing, and it is also a pet peeve of mine. Stop saying, “Great job,” when you don’t feel that the other person did a great job. Here’s the thing. If the other person doesn’t know that this was not a great job, you are misleading them. You are not doing them any favor. But it’s even worse if they do know that what they did was not a great job. Because then they will think one of two things or any combination – one, that you’re incompetent, that you don’t know a bad job even if it stares you in the eyes, or maybe you do know that this was not a good job and yet you’re not really saying what you feel. Either way, you violated two of the trustworthiness components. You violated competence and you violated shared values. Therefore, you cannot be trusted. So, do me a favor. Do not tell somebody else, “What a great job,” if that’s not what you mean.
Yes, thank you for saying that. You’re being dishonest. Really, at the core of it, you’re lying. Why would you want to lie? It seems so obvious, but you’re right. It’s relatively common and I think it’s because – I don’t know why people do it – but I think it’s because we’re so afraid of conflict or for saying something that’s hard for someone to hear that we mask it by just sort of placating them or moving them along. It’s a disservice.
That’s right.
Thank you. We’ll link to everything you’ve mentioned and the book in the show notes, and what are the best ways for people to stay in touch with you and learn more from you online, on social – where should they follow?
First, they can just text the word “trust” to 21000. You can find us on our website, which is Trust21000.com. You can follow us on Twitter or Instagram with the handle @Trust21000. Can you see a trend here?
Yes, and what does that number signify? I’m not picking it up.
Nothing. It’s just a good number that I could buy.
Good, I was thinking I was missing a “thing.”
It’s so much better than 74356.
I agree.
21000.
I interrupted you because it was making me curious. The website, and the last thing you said?
Instagram or Twitter. Again, it’s @Trust21000.
Awesome.
Just like the website and just like you text “trust” to 21000.
Very good. Thank you Yoram so much for coming back to the show. I think you’ve added tons of value and sharing with us the evolution of your understanding of trust and teaching us how to build trust, be trusted and know who to trust, and I look forward to hearing about your next evolution. When it comes, we’ll bring you on. Until the next time, thank you again.
Thank you so much Halelly. I enjoyed doing this a second time.
OUTRO There you have it TalentGrowers. I hope that you’ve gained a lot of insights about how to build trust, how to be more trustworthy and super actionable tips for things you can do right away including don’t lie to people! Seems really obvious, but don’t make those little white lies like Yoram said and tell them good job. Now, I have lots of insights about how to tell people they are doing a good job in a much more specific and sincere and helpful way, and I will link to that in the show notes as well. I thank you for listening to yet another episode of the TalentGrow Show. I am Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist here at TalentGrow and we love to develop leaders that people want to follow. Thank you for listening, and until the next time, make today great.
Thanks for listening to the TalentGrow Show, where we help you develop your talent to become the kind of leader that people want to follow. For more information, visit TalentGrow.com.
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Intro/outro music: "Why-Y" by Esta
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