186: Cognitive Diversity — How to Build Whole Brain® Teams with Ann Herrmann-Nehdi
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Everyone on your team works differently because they think differently. As a leader, it is important that you boost communication, innovation, and creativity in a way that plays to the strengths of each individual on your team. Ann Herrmann-Nehdi, Chief Thought Leader and Chair of the Board at Herrmann, returns to The TalentGrow Show to explain how The Whole Brain® Model, a time-tested framework, can be used to decode and harness the cognitive diversity of individuals, teams, and organizations. Discover how to hack your natural biases and blindspots by becoming an agile thinker and get actionable tips and stories that will help you leverage cognitive diversity in your team. Plus, find out how Ann’s ideas apply to the workplace of the future! Tune in and be sure to share this episode with others in your network.
ABOUT:
Ann Herrmann-Nehdi is Chief Thought Leader and Chair of Herrmann, the originators of Whole Brain® Thinking and the Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument® (HBDI®). Author, researcher and keynoter, Ann’s work is specialized on the practical application of neuroscience and cognitive diversity to human and organization development and improvement, continuing the firm’s 35+ years of research with a database of over 3 million thinkers from around the globe.
WHAT YOU’LL LEARN:
What is cognitive diversity and why is it important for leaders? (5:53)
Ann describes the four clusters of thinking that we all have access to (8:04)
The struggle one executive faced in attempting to leverage the different ways of thinking on his team (9:06)
How do you hack your natural biases? Ann introduces the idea of becoming an agile thinker, and shares an example (10:45)
Other ways to bring more cognitive diversity to your team (13:49)
Can there be too much cognitive diversity on a team? Ann weighs in, and shares some helpful perspectives for leaders (15:38)
Ann shares an example of an engineering team that struggled with customer service due to a lack of cognitive diversity (18:20)
Halelly and Ann discuss trends and how cognitive diversity may apply to the workplace of the future (19:06)
What’s new and exciting on Ann’s horizon? (21:36)
What are “whole brain teams”? (23:56)
One specific action you can take to upgrade your leadership skills (24:51)
RESOURCES:
Episode 186
Soundbite: And if you just address that yourself as a leader, then you can begin to ask that of others and use the tools that are out there. There are plenty of tools. We have some great tools to facilitate creating a safe space and helping people understand their own preference and having a common language so that they can talk about this in a non-judgmental way.
INTRO Welcome to the TalentGrow Show, where you can get actionable results-oriented insight and advice on how to take your leadership, communication and people skills to the next level and become the kind of leader people want to follow. And now, your host and leadership development strategist, Halelly Azulay.
Hey there TalentGrowers. Welcome back to another episode of the TalentGrow Show. I’m Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist here at TalentGrow and TalentGrow is the company I founded in 2006 to develop leaders that people actually want to follow. We provide consulting services to organizations that want to have a more strategic and thoughtful approach to developing leaders as well as speaking at conferences and facilitating learning opportunities for leaders around specific skills such as emotional intelligence, communication, how to motivate, how to give feedback. I am so looking forward to sharing today’s episode with you. It is a return guest, a boomeranger as I like to call them, Ann Herrmann-Nehdi, and she gave us a great way to think more like a CEO back in episode 7 and today she is back to talk about cognitive diversity and some of the latest research they’ve been doing over in her organization named Herrmann. I look forward to sharing that with you, how you can develop a more cognitively-diverse team, how you can bring more cognitive diversity onto your team, how to avoid having too much cognitive diversity stopping you in your tracks, as well as what the future holds in terms of trends that relate to cognitive diversity and where cognitive diversity can help out with some of these future trends. I hope you enjoy today’s episode, and without further ado, let’s dig in.
All right TalentGrowers, I have a boomeranger. Ann Herrmann-Nehdi is back. She is Chief Thought Leader and chair of Herrmann, the originators of whole brain thinking and the Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument, or HBDI. Author, researcher and keynoter, Ann’s work is specialized on the practical application of neuroscience and cognitive diversity to human and organization development and improvement, continuing the firm’s 35-plus years of research with a database of over 3 million thinkers from around the globe. Ann, welcome back to the TalentGrow Show.
I’m thrilled to be here.
So glad. It’s such a pleasure. You were on back really, I mean, I don’t know if you know this because I’m sure you’re not keeping track, but we just celebrated our fifth anniversary, and you were on episode seven. So you were one of my first ones and so thank you for your support and interest and thank you for coming back. I don’t want to assume that people remember anything anyone said five years ago, so I would love for you to also, again today, describe your professional journey very briefly. I always start with that. Where did you start and how did you end up where you are today?
Great. I may not even remember what I said five years ago! Delighted to be here, and congrats on the five year anniversary. I grew up as a researcher’s daughter. My father was head of management education at GE, so I used to kind of come home and be one of his research subjects after school. He was doing brain research at the time, trying to understand workplace dynamics and learning and why people were learning in different ways and thinking in different ways. He had an EEG set up at home. I’d come home, get wired up for testing, and some people say that describes how I turned out, I don’t know! Maybe that’s for you to judge. But that research, which is close to over 40 years old at this point, has been evolving. My journey, going from daughter and test subject to actually an adult who was in the work world and began to make those connections to the second generation leader of the company has taken me on a path of really being a student of how it is we can apply what we know about how we think and neuroscience. Before neuroscience became very trendy, we were talking about it and looking at it, and make that tangible so that people can see specific outcomes as they apply that in their day-to-day lives. I’m really a continuing student as well as a person who loves to share what it is that we’ve learned so far in my close to 30 years of studying the subject.
Interestingly enough, and unusually, not only were you the second generation of your family business, but now as I understand, it’s continuing to the third generation, is that right?
That’s absolutely correct. I am now chair and Chief Thought Leader because my eldest son, Karim Nehdi, is now CEO of the company, has been for several years, and is taking it in a direction that’s really thrilling, helping us really leverage technology and allowing us to scale at record speed, so I’m thrilled with that and I think its’ very exciting. The topic we’re talking about today, this notion of cognitive diversity, has emerged as part of our ongoing research that he has helped us focus on and lead.
Very interesting, and that’s really the reason why you’ve come back on the show and because you've been doing so much new research on this topic of cognitive diversity is what is it and why is it important for leaders to know about it?
There’s a lot of discussion of diversity and inclusion out there. This is not a new topic. But what we’re seeing is that it’s suddenly become something that actual boardrooms are talking about, and this I think is very exciting because it’s merited that level of attention. But it really hasn’t had that attention in recent years. I think partially that’s because there is new research that shows there’s a bottom line value of paying attention to this. Just an example, recent research by BCG showed that companies that have more diverse management teams have 19-percent higher revenue. That’s primarily because they’re bringing together different thinking, which drives innovation. And there is a plethora of data, new data, that supports the business value. So we’ve been looking at cognitive diversity for a very long time. People didn’t always call it that, but in contrast to kind of the classic diversity definitions or we’re talking about ethnicity, race and gender, etc., all of which are extremely important, we often think a great place to start is looking at your thinking. That’s really what we’re measuring. Looking at the differences in how we think and being able to codify that, decode it in an easy way, in a non-judgmental, non-threatening way, because we all have access to these different thinking preferences that we measure with the whole brain thinking model and the HBDI. But we just use them differently. It’s a safe place to begin to talk about differences, diversity and bias, and then begin to actually do something about it.
Cognitive diversity is the degree of different thinking that we each bring to the table, and that thinking has evolved over the course of our lives. It continues to evolve. We encounter it in every aspect of our life. I’m talking about the role of business today, but we often are experiencing that at the breakfast table with our families and kind of dealing with those differences and the model that was developed so many years ago at GE, the whole brain thinking model, really is pretty straight forward to understand and it really allows you to look at four different clusters of thinking that we all have access to. I know, Halelly, you’ve been through this and so you kind of know what your thinking preferences are. Perhaps you want to make a comment about that if you’d like, but some of us prefer more analytical and rational kinds of thinking, others it’s more practical detail-oriented sort of linear thinking. Others it’s more relational, intuitive, communicative kind of thinking, and for others it’s experimental, big picture, inventive kind of thinking. Most of us have two to three strong preferences across those areas. We’re not an either/or construct. It’s about really understanding first of all where does your thinking go first, how does that create a potential bias for you, and is there a blind spot and an area of lower preference?
I just had a coaching session with an exec the other day where he was describing how the practical detailed focus was important, but that several members of his team – who he had brought on board to actually make sure it was complimenting his thinking – were driving him crazy. Because they were constantly asking him for more details and timelines and so on and so forth. He said, “Intellectually I know this, but I find my brain kind of shutting down every time that an additional request comes in.” We talked about ways he can stretch beyond his natural inclination to think big picture, and really embrace that more detail-oriented kind of mindset in service of what he’s trying to do, the big picture, long-term view. This is a very practical conversation about how to leverage the difference. He brought difference into his team, intentionally, but he was still struggling with how to make it work.
I think that’s a common struggle. People, I think maybe their default or their natural inclination or people who follow their gut in hiring, tend to lean toward people that are like them, that think like them, that look like them – that’s a different topic for us – but that seem to see eye-to-eye. Often under the guise of culture fit or similar values. So, you’re describing the struggle which this seems like this particular leader was aware that he should not do that, and tried to hire for diversity, but was reacting to the diversity from that same perspective of, “These people are not like me and this is not how we do it.”
Exactly. I think that one of the things that our work does is give people some practical tools and a way to begin to kind of name it, identify it, pick up on it, and then bias hack it. So I think that’s really what we were talking about. How do you hack that natural bias that you have toward not spending time and energy on the details? In many instances, where we have a lower preference, it takes more energy. We can go there, but it takes more energy to do it, so in today’s very busy world, we tend to go with what’s top of mind and what’s easiest.
Okay, you said hack it, so can you share with us some things you would say? How would you hack it?
First and foremost, you have to identify where it is that you are. We had gone through the process of understanding his preferences. That was the first step and he already had done that. He already understood the need for differences on the team and it brought those in. Then you need to become quite intentional. We refer to this of this idea of becoming an agile thinker. The way I define thinking agility is that ability to very deliberately and situationally shift your thinking when and as the situation requires it. Leaders in particular have a big, I think, a very important role to play in doing this. Because it’s one thing to give lip service to different thinking and say, “We need different perspectives,” and then talk throughout the entire meeting and not listen to what other people are bringing to bare. Part of it is first of all, starting with that knowledge of self. Then looking at an introducing tools like the whole brain thinking model and some of the tools we provide with their team, so that the teams begin to understand, “Let’s make sure we visit each of these four areas as we’re solving a tough problem or making a big decision.” One of the best examples I have as a leader, former leader from Perfetti Van Melle, really embraced this, he said, “You know, I don’t want anyone crossing the threshold of my office without having prepared their request for me in a whole brain way. I want them to answer the question, “What?” That more analytical piece. What problem is it that we’re solving. Why is it important? That’s looking at that more big-picture, experimental piece. Who is going to be impacted? That’s the relational piece. And then how are you recommending you move forward? That is of course the more practical piece. And he said it transformed the way the organization worked and took the monkey off of his back to really bring the best thinking to his team and have them bring that to him, rather than they are constantly coming to him to solve the problems for him. That’s just an example of how you can hack it.
I like it. And I think it’s very easy to follow when you put it into those simple words. I also think the way you’ve created your materials and your model, they are very intuitive, not very difficult to understand. I think that makes it accessible to everyone and not overwhelming or not scary to try to use. So that’s good. I think you’ve described how leaders can bring more cognitive diversity into their team, but are there other ways?
Absolutely. As we look at that notion of not only making sure there’s enough diversity on the team, it’s also recognizing that in some instances, you have the team that you have. It’s creating a safe space for people to stretch themselves and inviting them to actually leverage more of their own thinking diversity and allowing them to grow into areas. There’s a whole movement around strengths, making sure we leverage our strengths, and I agree with that, but the reality is also that we also need to be able to deal with those areas that aren’t strengths and we don’t always have access to those resources. A leader can model that themselves, and that is what I was talking to the example of the leader I was talking about earlier, but they can also help their team do that and make sure instead of thinking about their development that they can have those conversations and use this as a common language to create a safe space within the team for everybody to feel like they can really share some of that thinking that may not be going with the norm of the rest of the group. That safe space, there’s a lot of discussion about psychological safety right now. Having a model like this and sort of living and breathing it with your team helps create that psychological safety. That’s another way they can do that.
And good leaders develop others, so what you were just describing is how the leader is strengthening but also sharing with their team how to do that in themselves. They can grow and become more agile in their thinking and adopt different perspectives, so all of that will help raise everybody’s ability to make the workplace more diverse and welcoming of differences. Can there be too much cognitive diversity on the team?
Yes. Well, we’re working on something called the Herrmann Cognitive Diversity Index, which is a way to measure the degree of diversity that you have on the team, and yes indeed. We’ve all been in those situations where there’s so much breadth of thinking that you can’t actually come together. So we have actually demonstrated through some of that research that we conducted with INSEAD business school in Europe that you can actually have too much diversity. Another role for the leader is to recognize when it’s important to bring things back down to a focused area and recognize that there may be a lot of great different perspectives on how to solve a problem, but we need to actually converge down to understand what direction we’re going to take and be decisive in that way. Understanding kind of how to manage when do you illicit that breadth of thinking, and when do you bring people back down? And understand when we need to converge and focus is, again, a skill I think that many leaders can develop.
It’s a challenging skill too. Do you have any kind of quick tips about how can someone know when the time is right? Is that something you can even teach quickly or is that something that you just develop over time and you kind of know it when you see it?
I think every project has a scope and timeline and a set of parameters associated with it. So being intentional and thoughtful about opening it up and inviting people to bring that prospect in, but also having a process and being very open about how then of course there needs to be a way to come back together and focus and converge on a solution. So having that open dialogue with your team about how you are going to go about doing it. Then when people understand the value of all the different perspectives, they begin to recognize that maybe this particular challenge actually requires more practical thinking. Okay, that’s fine. Or this other particular challenge requires a lot more big-picture thinking and experimental thinking, so you can have a very nonjudgmental, nonthreatening conversation about why it is that we’re needing to kind of pull things back down or why it is we need to open it up. But it is a skill that becomes easier over time and as leaders began to practice this and have built that common language with their team, everybody kind of gets it.
Yes. It sounds like it’s guided very much as you said by the timeline and being focused on the project overall, or maybe even within a meeting I could see how you would have an agenda, so this is the time we allot for divergent thinking and now at this point in the agenda or this point in the project, we move to convergence because we need to make decisions and move forward with action.
Absolutely. Sometimes some people out there might be like, “This is great, and you know, thanks a lot, I have a homogenous team and that’s the way it is. And I don’t really have access to other thinkers right now.” One great example was an engineering team who were very, very analytical, not a big surprise. They really struggled, they just weren’t thinking about their customers at all. They were building products. The customers were just not getting what they needed. They designed all of their team meetings to kind of reverse, started with their least preferred preference, and focused the first 10 minutes of every meeting talking about customers. Brought customers in and so on and so forth. Again, depending on what you’ve got, you want to make it work either through your process and through your team, but use a model that makes that easy.
That’s great. I love that. Thank you. Everybody talks about the future of work and the robots are coming and what do you think are some of the big trends where cognitive diversity is involved in the future of work?
It’s interesting. We at Herrmann are actually a 100-percent remote company. And there’s a lot of interesting research out there about remote companies and how having diverse thinkers in a remote company makes it even harder to be effective when you’re remote. For those of you who are in a remote situation – I think we’re going to see more and more, even if you’re not 100-percent remote like we are, seeing some degree of your workforce working remotely. And that difference can actually exacerbate some of the connection time, the onboarding, etc., unless you address it right up front. We’re lucky enough as a company to be able to actually have this tool sort of built into our world, so we can use it and there are some really interesting data and research out there that shows by using a model like this, to bring people together, more quickly give them a way to connect at a distance, more rapidly understand each other and have a common language, you can really mitigate some of those particular issues that might be associated with being a remote organization. That’s one trend.
Another trend is just when I mentioned earlier, that notion of agility, almost all of the research out there is talking about agility, the need for agility. Many organizations have adopted agile as a process in their organization, and they’re asking their teams to be more agile. So again, having a way to understand how to stretch your thinking and go beyond what your natural preference bias might be can really help address particular issue and develop that agility as a core competency.
Finally, if you look at the fourth industrial revolution and all the research out there in the world economic forum, talking about the competencies of the future, many of them are what we used to kind of call the soft skills. That ability to understand, create differently, have more emotional intelligence, etc. Using a model like this can help people understand, again, in a nonjudgmental way, not only can they actually develop that skill if they get out of their own way and learn how to stretch, but also understand how, again, they can help grow that in others as leaders. Those are three areas that I think are pretty relevant in terms of looking at some of the trends that are out there in the future of work.
Cool. Thank you. What’s something that’s new and exciting on your horizon right now, Ann?
There’s so much. There’s something I’ll share that is very current this week and it’s related to our topic today. We are actually part of something called the CEO Action for Diversity Inclusion Pledge that is CEOs who are making a pledge to actually build an inclusive culture in their companies. There are CEOs from all over the world that are really making this commitment and I think it’s very exciting. We’re actually part of that, attended the conference last year, and part of that, the month of February is sort of the month of understanding, and one of the commitment that you make is to have a Day of Understanding, which we’re doing at Herrmann, where we’re unpacking and exploring all different aspects of diversity and inclusion within our organization. Just because this is a field we work in doesn’t mean that you don’t need to constantly grow and learn yourselves. So that has just been a really exciting project, especially finding creative ways to do that remotely, and I am very, very excited about how we’re opening up that dialogue and look forward to seeing where that can take us.
Can you share with us something that works remotely for doing more of that?
One of the things we’re doing is we use platforms like the Zoom platform to bring together people in a virtual environment, and then set them up in teams to have them go off into breakout rooms within the platform to bring up ideas. Of course we set up whole brain schemes to do that, and then stay connected and then work as groups using our platform, as well as Slack, which is another platform that we use extensively. This will be a month-long project for these groups. They will use a combination of Zoom and Slack to stay connected and continue that work over the course of the month. Having that structure and the platform in place are critical. If you don’t have the platform, it just doesn’t happen. Having the structure means people actually do it and then using the platform where people actually see each other and meet easily is really important. It’s not just about having that text that you might get on a Slack message, but also being able to see each other and interact. We have a webcam requirement for all of our meetings that makes that a lot more effective.
Nice. I recommend that too when I talk about effective meetings. You said we set up whole brain teams. Can you just define what that means?
Absolutely. Using the WBDI data, which of course we use internally, we like to eat our own cooking as a company – it’s one of our core values – we actually design the teams for this particular project so that there was a balance across all four quadrants of the whole brain model, by design. I like to talk about being diverse by design, which is one of the ways you can apply this. We are allowing those teams to kind of start and they’ll use the data and the model as part of their process to ensure that they’re listening to each other. Just putting people together isn’t enough. You need to give them the tools and the structure to make sure that they’re actually taking advantage and leveraging that cognitive diversity that’s available to them.
Neat. So, I love it and I think people are going to want to learn more about it and from you and stay in touch. But before, we always ask our guests for one specific action that the TalentGrowers can take today, tomorrow, this week, that can help them upgrade their own leadership skills. I would say from your perspective, if you could make it so that they can upgrade their team’s cognitive diversity or how to leverage it, something like that?
It starts with you. I think the first thing that I recommend that people do is to pay attention to what is happening in their own heads. This is becoming more and more difficult in today’s very rapid environment where we just are kind of playing whack-a-mole with everything that’s coming at us. I recommend that you block thinking time on your calendar and you take a look, become a student of cognitive diversity, understand what your thinking preferences are. We’ve got lots of resources on our website and tools you can have access to, and pay attention to where your thinking is going. Make sure you are prompting your own thinking, just within your own head, to make sure that you’re visiting that analytical aspect of any given situation. What are the facts, what are the data? Answer that “what” question. The “why” question, that more experimental aspect, looking at the big picture, understanding context, thinking beyond the obvious. The “who” question, that relational piece, who is involved? Whose input can I get? What emotions maybe need to get engaged? How do I communicate? And then finally that “how” question, which is looking at the details, the practical timelines, etc. If you just address that yourself, as a leader, then you can begin to ask that of others and use the tools that are out there. There are plenty of tools. We have some great tools to facilitate creating a safe space and helping people understand their own preference and having a common language so that they can talk about this in a nonjudgmental way. Diversity is a hot topic, so cognitive diversity is a wonderful place to start having that conversation without a guilt kind of thing kind of creeping in. You can just start talking about bias in a way that’s nonjudgmental and recognize that we all have it, but we can all override it if we just pay attention to it.
That’s very practical. I wonder, do you get pushback, I know there’s recently been pushback about thinking preferences or learning preferences, that there used to be a lot of people would teach that we have a preference for one type of sensory pathway and others would say that that’s baloney and it’s not true. Do you see any kind of pushback about this at all?
That’s a great question, and I appreciate you bringing it up. There are quite a few learning style models out there, which many of you – auditory, visual, etc. – models, which actually have had quite a bit of challenge in the research community, and that don’t prove to have much validity. This particular model in that research domain actually, we have quite a bit of validity research. What’s not true, and what some people assume we’re measuring, is this idea of a simplified left brain/right brain construct. Because we know that the brain is not an either/or. You may think you’re working with someone with half a brain, but that’s not the case! Everybody has a whole brain, and the initial research was founded on this notion of whole brain thinking, not this notion of people being locked in one particular style. I think it’s really important to sort of sort out the models that throw you into a stereotypical box and say, “You’re a this or a that,” because we know that the brain doesn’t function that way. The brain is what we call plastic – it’s growing and you can adopt a growth mindset. If you look at Carol Dweck’s work that says you can build that strength like a muscle. So preference is what it is. If you think about the brain, we have kind of a habit track that our brain goes into, but it doesn’t mean you can’t override it and that’s an important philosophical approach to what we have as an organization. This is about understanding what are those mental habits you’ve created, and then how do you override those? That’s what I think separates our research out from some of the other models out there, that really are kind of oversimplified and not really looking at what we know about the brain and how it works.
I love that in everything you’ve spoken about, you demonstrate that there’s a value to understanding a preference and where people come from, but there is a higher value to making sure that we use a holistic approach in how each of us thinks internally, as well as how we as teams and organizations make decisions that are holistic and that look through all of the different lenses so that we’re not overlooking the impact of any approach.
Absolutely. Most of us have multiple preferences. We’re not just one quadrant at all. Data shows it’s not just about being in one particular area. It’s about leveraging what we already have. We have access to a whole brain approach. You’re just probably not tapping into it as much as we could. That’s really what it’s about.
Good. And overcoming your blind spots. Well, Ann, it’s always fun to talk to you and very interesting as well, so I know that the TalentGrowers are going to want to learn more from you and about you and HBDI and cognitive diversity. What’s the best place online, on social, where should they follow?
ThinkHerrmann.com is our website. I would love to have you follow me on LinkedIn, I’m just Ann Herrmann-Nehdi, you can find me easily there. We’ve got a whole brain thinking fan page on Facebook, and obviously a group on LinkedIn as well under Herrmann. Lots of different places to connect with us. I know you and I follow each other on Instagram, that’s another place to go. So Twitter, the handle is AnnHerrmann. We’ve also got a Herrmann Twitter handle. That will get you where you need to go.
We will include all of that on our show notes page so that it’s easy for people to find and I really appreciate you sharing your insights and time with us today, Ann. Thank you so much.
Thank you. I appreciate this and I do want to mention – we’ve done several great webinars on cognitive diversity. Those will be available if you take a look at our website, we’ll be posting information on those in a few days. If you want to know more specifically, please seek those out.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
OUTRO There you have it, TalentGrowers. Another episode is wrapped up and I hope that you enjoyed it. I love that Ann is so energetic and offers so many unique and interesting perspectives and stories, so I hope that this was a good learning experience for you and as always, I welcome your feedback and would love to know what your biggest takeaway was, and what you think you’re going to do to apply your insights from this episode and after you did, how it went and what you got from that. So, thanks for spending time on the TalentGrow Show and listening. I really appreciate you. That is the only reason I put on this show. I don’t get any monetary value from it at the moment or any other pleasure except for knowing that I’m helping you develop your leadership skills, so share this with one other person and that will help me a great day to reach more people and reach my mission of impacting as many leaders as possible with ways to grow their leadership skills. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the TalentGrow Show. This is Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist here at TalentGrow and until the next time, make today great.
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