169: Six Fundamental Leadership Practices for Every Leader with Ron Ashkenas

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Ep169 Six Fundamental Leadership Practices for Every Leader Ron Ashkenas TalentGrow Show with Halelly Azulay

In today's information-sharing age, aspiring leaders are inundated with leadership advice from countless sources. There are upwards of 60,000 books on Amazon written about leadership, and millions of articles on Google. While this is great in many ways, it also makes it more difficult to narrow down what is truly fundamental.

In today’s information-sharing age, aspiring leaders are inundated with leadership advice from countless sources. There are upwards of 60,000 books on Amazon written about leadership, and millions of articles on Google. While this is great in many ways, it also makes it more difficult to narrow down what is truly fundamental. Advisor, consultant and co-author of the Harvard Business Review Leader’s Handbook Ron Ashkenas joins me on this episode of The TalentGrow Show to share what he believes are the six fundamental skills every leader should practice to bring themselves up to the next level. Tune in to discover why these six leadership skills are so crucial, how to implement them regardless of where you’re at in your leadership journey, and how you can boost your own self-development by taking initiatives such as creating your own stretch assignments. Plus, Ron offers a great leadership tip for speeding up development in startup organizations! Listen and share with others in your network.

ABOUT RON ASHKENAS:

Ron Ashkenas is the principal of his own firm and an Emeritus Partner of Schaffer Consulting in Stamford, Connecticut. He is the author or co-author of dozens of articles and five books, most recently the Harvard Business Review Leader's Handbook: Make an Impact, Inspire Your Organization, and Get to the Next Level. Ron has been a thought-partner and coach on organizational change, leadership, and transformation for over thirty years and is currently focusing on start-ups and non-profits. He was part of the team that worked with Jack Welch to transform GE in the 1990’s. In addition to his consulting work, Ron has lectured at universities and conferences around the world; and has served as an executive-in-residence at the Haas Business School of UC Berkeley. 

WHAT YOU’LL LEARN:

  • Ron describes how he and his co-author developed the 6 fundamental leadership practices in their book (5:35)

  • What are the 6 practices? Ron shares an overview of each one (7:33)

  • How and why to get involved with setting the vision of your organization, regardless of where you are on the leadership ladder (13:52)

  • Why volunteering is such a valuable practice (17:04)

  • What Ron doesn’t find very helpful in common leadership advice, and what he would suggest instead (19:17)

  • Ron recommends creating your own ‘stretch assignments’ even if they aren’t readily available, and shares a real-life success story (20:41)

  • What’s new and exciting on Ron’s horizon? (23:14)

  • Ron shares a great tip for speeding up development in startup organizations (24:40)

  • One specific action you can take to upgrade your leadership skills (26:49)

RESOURCES:

Episode 169 Ron Ashkenas

Here’s a soundbite: We had some concerns that there’s just so much written about leadership these days, there are 60,000 books on Amazon and millions of articles on Google, and while much of it is very good and there’s a sense that we have to find all kinds of new leadership approaches because the world is changing, more technology and virtual work, etc., but the reality is, the fundamental leadership prefaces seem to get lost in all of that. People who are aspiring leaders are inundated with too much. Our thought was, let’s try to find what are the basics? What are the fundamentals, the core things, that every leader really needs to work on?

Welcome to the TalentGrow Show, where you can get actionable results-oriented insight and advice on how to take your leadership, communication and people skills to the next level and become the kind of leader people want to follow. And now, your host and leadership development strategist, Halelly Azulay.

INTRO Hey TalentGrowers. Welcome back to another episode of the TalentGrow Show. I’m Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist here at TalentGrow, the company that I founded in 2006 to develop leaders that people actually want to follow. TalentGrow sponsors the TalentGrow Show so that it’s free for you every Tuesday. This week my guest provides great insight on the fundamentals of leadership. His name is Ron Ashkenas, he has written a book for Harvard Business Review all about this, and I can’t wait to share with you the practices – there are six – fundamental practices of great leaders based on research and stories and experiences, and we also talk about how you, as a leader, can take ownership of your own development with some specific ideas for what you can do. I think this will be a great episode for you ahead of the holidays, and Ron’s book will probably be a great gift for some of the aspiring leaders and developing leaders that you know. Without further ado, let’s listen to my conversation with Ron Ashkenas.

Let’s dig in

Ron Ashkenas is here with me today. I’m excited for you to listen to him, TalentGrowers. He’s the principle of his own firm and an emeritus partner of Shafer Consulting in Sanford, Connecticut. He is the author or co-author of dozens of articles and five books. Most recently, the Harvard Business Review Leader’s Handbook, make an impact, inspire your organization and get to the next level. Ron has been a thought partner and coach on organizational change, leadership and transformation, for over 30 years and is currently focusing on startups and nonprofits. He was part of the team that worked with Jack Welch to transform GE in the 1990s. In addition to his consulting work, Ron has lectured at universities and conferences around the world and has served as an executive in residence at the Haas Business School of UC Berkeley. Ron, welcome to the TalentGrow Show.

Thank you. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

My pleasure. I’m so glad you’re here. Before we start to dive deeper into some of these principles of leadership you described in your most recent book, I always ask my guests to describe their professional journey briefly. Where did you start and how did you get to where you are today?

Well, actually, I began my career post-college as a special education teacher in middle school. Did that for a year, working with kids who had learning disabilities and problems. Realized during that year that the kids, while they had their own problems, a lot of the problem was the school system – that they hadn’t been diagnosed, they weren’t treated, etc., etc. – and it led me to eventually go back to graduate school in the field of organizational behavior, to look at how organizations work and how organizations affect people in them. That just became sort of a fascinating area for me. When I finished my academic work, I had an opportunity to either go to university and be a professor, but I thought since I’d studied organizational change, I wanted to actually do organizational change. So I joined a consulting firm in Stanford, Connecticut, Shafer Consulting, thinking I would stay with them for a couple of years and see what I learned. 30-plus years later, I still was learning, so I was still there! During the course of that time, I had opportunities to work with some premier companies and leaders all over the world. You said Jack Welch and many others like that. About three or four years ago, I backed away from Shafer, became an emeritus partner, and now I’m just doing my own work.

What do you find to be the biggest difference in what you’re doing now versus those years with Shafer Consulting? Just curious.

The negative part of it is that I don’t have colleagues that I worked with together and built a business. We were entrepreneurs and I was the leader of a group like that. That’s the negative side. The positive side is that I don’t have to do that anymore. I was always worried about bringing in enough business and building the firm and doing things like that, and I didn’t always have as much time to actually do the work with clients. Now I don’t worry about anybody but myself and I work with clients as much as I can and while I still collaborate with people in Shafer, I’m not responsible for them anymore. In some ways that’s liberating after many years.

I can imagine. Just a quick shout out to our mutual colleague, Davidi Vortman, who made this introduction and allowed me to meet you and for this to be a possible conversation on the TalentGrow Show. I’m really looking forward to talking with you about your most recent book. It’s the Harvard Business Review Leader’s Handbook, and in it you say – you co-wrote this book with Brook Manville – and you interviewed over 40 successful leaders from a variety of organizations and industries, and you also reviewed several decades worth of articles from the Harvard Business Review and your own years of experience as a leadership and organizational advisor. So, in all of that, what you found was that the best leaders were the most outside impact, almost always deploy six classic fundamental practices. I know the TalentGrowers are dying to hear, what are they?

Let me keep them in suspense for just a moment first and tell you why we wrote the book and how we came to that conclusion of the six fundamental practices. Both Brook and I, in talking with editors at Harvard Business Review, we had some concerns that there’s just so much written about leadership these days, there are 60,000 books on Amazon and millions of articles on Google, and while much of it is very good and there’s a sense that we have to find all kinds of new leadership approaches because the world is changing, more technology and virtual work, etc., but the reality is, the fundamental leadership prefaces seem to get lost in all of that. People who are aspiring leaders are inundated with too much. Our thought was, let’s try to find what are the basics? What are the fundamentals, the core things, that every leader really needs to work on? It’s sort of like when you become a great tennis player, you have to know backhand, forehand, overhead, there are some fundamentals you have to work on. It’s the same thing with being a leader. We thought there were some fundamentals. So we went back to try and discover what those were and that’s why we interviewed all those leaders and we went back through decades of the Harvard Business Review magazine to see what were the articles and the subjects that kept coming up over and over again that weren’t dependent on the latest technology or the latest things that were going on in business? That’s where we got the six practices. Now I’ll share what they are!

Yes!

Very simply, the first one is creating a unifying vision. One of the things that a leader does is inspire people to come together to do things that they wouldn’t be able to do by themselves, and to do that, you have to be sort of inspired that this is going to be something bigger than just a job. Bigger than me, you can really create something. We talk in the book about the story in the World Bank where the president is trying to work on what was that sort of vision, exciting vision of the World Bank, and he came up with “a world free from poverty.” And all sort of people, agronomists, economists, clerical people, human resource people, everybody feels like they’re working on reducing poverty around the world. So that’s number one, is creating that unifying vision that everybody can relate to and feel excited and good about.

We’ll come back to this more later. I have a follow-up question on this one. Let’s move ahead.

We could spend the whole time just on that one.

For sure.

The second one is translating that vision into strategy. You have to then figure out how do we allocate resources and decide exactly what to do and turn it into plans and goals and make all that happen. These days, strategy is a big topic and lots has been written about it, but strategy is much more iterative and short-term and experimental. You try things and see what works and gradually develop strategy. We talk in the book about how NPR developed its PBS Kids, the 24/7, and there, where they had sort of a vision of trying to get kids educational programs at all times, 24/7, but weren’t quite able to figure out how to do it, and gradually over time, doing a lot of experimentation came up with the idea of using the PBS Kids on a mobile platform and digitizing and taking existing content and putting it into it, and it’s become a tremendously successful way of reaching kids these days. That’s number two, turning the vision into strategy.

Third is getting great people on board. When you have a vision and a strategy to accomplish it, you have to have the people to do it and of course there is a lot written about how to you hire and retain and develop the right people? Most leaders inherit a team, so they have to really make sure that team is a good team. Challenge them and stretch them and we can talk much about that, but that’s the third area. In all the discussions we’ve had with leaders about these fundamentals, that’s the one that most leaders say is most difficult.

Why is that? Why do they say it’s most difficult?

That’s the one that has to do with sort of emotions and it has to do with challenging people and having difficult conversations and stretching people and dealing with tough things. We tell a story in the book from the Ford Foundation, the CEO Darren Walker, when he came in, he inherited a group of tremendous professionals that worked on issues of social justice, which is what the Ford Foundation does. But his vision was to focus on social justice in the digital age, with the cyber bullying and cyber crime and things of that sort. He realized that none of his people, even though they were tremendously successful in the social justice area, had any clue about the digital world. So he had to deal with them. What does he say to them? Does he say, “Well, you’ve all had a great career but now you have to leave because you’re not digital natives?” So he had to work out a way to bring them up to speed and also change the standards for new people coming in. Those are very tough areas to be able to do that.

The fourth fundamental is what we call focusing on results. While it may be sort of obvious that once you have the vision and strategy and great people, the results will just come, but leaders have to put the conditions together to make sure people really are focusing on results, to take big projects and carve them down into manageable goals. To have the right metrics and dashboards, to have a good cadence of how often do we review projects and various processes, what strategies and budgets, etc.? Leaders have to put all of that in place. That’s number four.

Number five is, innovating for the future. It’s very easy for leaders to get so caught up in making sure the day-to-day works that you forget about the future and therefore you see lots of companies, whether it’s Ford Motor Company which was listed as one of the “built to last” companies and then it doesn’t last and then it gets great again and then it doesn’t get great again. How do you keep a company on a sort of sustaining level by managing not just the day-to-day, but also building enough to manage for the future? And to innovate, to experiment and put probes out into the future and see what’s possible?

Then the last area of fundamentals is what we call meeting yourself, which is knowing yourself as a leader, what you can do, what you can’t do, growing yourself and getting better, and also taking care of yourself. Leaders focus so much on the work that they sort of lose themselves and don’t become good human beings, don’t contribute to their community and have troubles with their family. The idea of knowing yourself and growing yourself and then taking care of yourself is an important part of leadership.

Those are the six fundamentals. I say them in a sequential order, but in reality, they’re all interrelated and some are more important than others at different times in a company’s evolution, and some leaders do some of them better than others and need to work on some more than others.

That would make sense. Some people have an easy time implementing saying one and four, let’s say, whereas for someone else those are the biggest challenges. It’s all different based on our personalities, probably, maybe our experience, or maybe just the people we have to work with or the organization or the industry that we’re in.

Exactly. It would be great if we’re all great at everything, but we’re not. Even senior leaders, we often have this myth that somebody who becomes a CEO or a head of a division, they must be great at everything. They’re not. They’re just human beings and they struggle with many of these as well. Part of the key to leadership is putting together a team around you that complements you and that you are enough self aware that you can be able to work on the things that you’re not as good at.

I think we don’t talk about it as much here on the TalentGrow Show, this idea of setting a vision. In part it’s because this podcast is geared more toward an audience that’s in the middle of the career ladder, I guess, in terms of leadership. Some of them are at the top, but I can’t assume that all of the folks listening are at the very top of the organization, so this idea of creating a vision or shaping a vision, for some people it might seem out of reach and certainly one can do that for one’s team, one’s department – you don’t need to do it for the entire organization – but I saw you had an article in the Harvard Business Review where you say even as a manager, and even as an aspiring leader, there is a lot of opportunity to get hands-on experience shaping vision, even when you’re not leading the entire organization. I would love for you to share a couple of those ideas with us.

That’s right. Most of us, most people in organizations think that the vision thing, that’s the responsibility of the CEO. But it’s not just the CEO. It’s everybody. You can get involved in it as a leader in a number of different ways, and it’s sort of a muscle to build over time. One is when your senior leadership is going through sort of a vision recalibration, which happens periodically as I said at the World Bank and many other examples like that, is to get involved in that. Participate in the discussions, share your voice and give your views. The best leaders are those who listen to those and go through that. At the World Bank, Jim Wolfensohn, the president at the time, he went through a process where they had all sorts of meetings, they used existing meetings like leadership development sessions and he also went to various constituents and stakeholders, and asked them all about what are the right aspects of this vision when you focus on poverty, what does that really mean? It became a whole dialogue. People got involved and engaged in that. That’s one way.

The second is to translate it into what does it mean for our team, our group, our department? It’s not just setting an independent vision for your team, your department, but how do you take the vision of the broader organization and say, “How do we make that relevant for us and make it come alive for us?” For example, one of the leaders at the world bank, the middle level managers, he ran a strategy team, and when he heard about the vision of “a world free from poverty,” his idea was that we need to create the strategy ideas from around the world that would be the best at reducing poverty and previously, they had only sort of put together their own ideas. So they opened it up and they created what they call the development marketplace, where they had people apply from around the world if they had ideas for how to fight poverty. They had a big fair, physically and then virtually in Washington, so the best ideas were judged and given some seed money. Gradually he created a whole process to get thousands of people engaged in this idea of fighting poverty by coming up with some of the best ideas for being able to do that. He was a mid-level manager. That’s an example of how to do that.

That’s a neat example.

The other, by the way, we all belong to organizations, but we also are part of a community and you can go into community organizations or nonprofits or as a volunteer and to exercise this muscle there. These are organizations that also need to have inspiring, exciting visions. If you can lend your voice to that, to engage people in the community, that’s another way to practice.

Yes, and I saw also, I think, I don’t remember where I saw if it was in your book or another article, you gave an example that a leader can develop themselves. That idea of leading yourself, and it’s related to developing your ability to be visionary or set a vision by volunteering. That is a chapter in my book, too, in Employee Development on a Shoestring, that volunteering is a great way to develop because if there is something that, at the moment, you are unable to practice at your job, or that you don’t want to practice at your job or if they don’t give you an opportunity to do so, you can go into so many different community organizations that are run by volunteers and are eager and hungry and totally willing to accept you as you are, if you’re passionate, and willing to put in some time, and there you can develop the skill. Like how to shape a vision or whatever it is that you want to develop as a leader – you do it there and then you get the skill and bring it back to work and that totally can lead to being noticed and being promoted and becoming a better leader at work.

Yes, absolutely. I want to emphasis the word practice. We call these six areas practices, with the notion not that they’re best practices, but they’re areas you have to keep practicing over the course of your career, that leaders just have to keep working on these and the best way to work on them is practice. Just like in any sport, you don’t learn tennis through a book. You don’t learn skiing through a book. You have to get out there and practice and work at it. Part of it is grasping those opportunities, whether they’re in your organization or the community.

And being aware that you need to seek them and then being open to seeing them, so that you don’t miss them. As you said, there is so much out there about leadership and leadership development. This is the world I swim in, for sure, and so based on the research and your experience and the stories that you heard, do you think there is any commonly doled out advice that’s not good?

Well, I never like to criticize others.

We can take another out at this –

I’ll answer it anyway, though, but it’s leadership development courses, per se, we haven’t found to be all that helpful. People sit in classes, they get stimulated and learn a lot, and they use books such as the ones that I’ve written and you’ve written, and that’s all good. But it’s intellectual knowledge and it’s not practical knowledge. The best kind of leadership development is if you go into a class, you come in with a real project or a real challenge or you come in with a team that is working on something and you use that class to work on it, and then you go back and apply what you’ve learned and you come back again. It’s a process, not an event. I think that’s one of the challenges of leadership development these days is to make it an ongoing process and not just a one-time event where we hope people will open up their heads, pour a bunch of information in and hope that they get it.

Yes, I tend to agree with you. What’s something counterintuitive that you do suggest that isn’t being widely suggested?

I think it’s people volunteering for and looking for stretch assignments. A lot of aspiring leaders we think are too passive. They’re kind of waiting for something to happen, waiting for the next promotion, waiting for some magical thing to happen. Look around your organization and see what are the needs? What’s going on? Go to your boss or your boss’ boss and say, “There’s an opportunity here and I’d like to work on this. Let’s put a team together.” To create your own stretch assignments if they aren’t easily available.

Sort of a large-scale story, but when Merck and Schering-Plough merged together, one of the things they needed was to sort of figure out who would lead the integration. And at the time, one of the leaders of a major part of Merck raised his hand and went to the CEO and said, “I’d really like to do this. I’d like to be leader.” It was Adam Schechter. He had no clue about how to lead integration at the time. He’d never done it. It’s a big thing. He was a really good person leading a business group. But he thought this would be a great opportunity for learning and he had to give up some of his business responsibilities to do this. For the next 18 months to two years, he worked full time leading the integration area. Learned a tremendous amount, got exposure to the whole company, and gradually rose to a higher and higher role and actually this week he’s starting a new job as the CEO of LabCorp, a major company. It was a key part of his path toward becoming the CEO. But that was at his initiative. I think that’s something that many leaders don’t take advantage of, to think, “Where are the opportunities that I can go and grasp it? “It’s the same thing with volunteering, going into a community organization or a nonprofit. Go create your own opportunities instead of waiting for them to come to you.

I so agree with that. It goes well beyond leaders and it goes well beyond what you were just describing in terms of stretch assignments. Those are the idea that you are the owner of your development and no one else is going to hand it to you and you should never just put it into someone else’s hands. Take ownership and guide your own development.

Absolutely.

Cool. We could talk for much longer about all the ideas that are in your book and of course I’ll link to it in the show notes so that people can grab a copy and learn much more. Before you share one specific action with the TalentGrowers, Ron, what’s new and exciting for you on your horizon these days?

Well, I think as you said in the introduction, I’m working these days with a lot of startups and a lot of nonprofits. That’s really exciting. Startups, I’m so optimistic about the world, because there are so many people out there with great ideas who are trying to make something happen. Not all of them will be successful, but the energy is just tremendous. It’s opportunities that didn’t exist 20 or 30 years ago. Didn’t even exist 10 years ago. Such a wealth of opportunity there, and much of the leadership things we’re talking about, it’s leadership on steroids. Because it has to go very fast in short cycles. When you’re in a big corporation, you have the time for thoughtful development and going to programs and getting to the next job and the next job. When you’re a startup, you don’t have time for that. You’ve just got to move on and do the next thing and the next thing and you’ve got to keep on learning. So it’s a fantastic opportunity for leadership development.

Is there a trick for speeding up development in startups?

Well, I think one of them is to realize that every time the startup hits a new milestone, whether it’s a revenue milestone or a headcount milestone or moves into a new market or launches a new product, it means that the needs of leadership are different. And what we did before may no longer be the right way to do it for the future. One of the ways to speed it up is to do a rapid reassessment of what’s needed in leadership at each next new stage, and then say, “Can I do it? Is it skills that I’d like to develop? Can I jump into that? Do we need to get some other talent? Do we need to put some people together who can figure it out?” We talked about grasping opportunities – that’s where there are so many opportunities, in startups. But if you don’t take those opportunities, if you don’t do that, then investors will come in and say, “You’re not up to the task. We’re going to bring in some new managers from the outside.”

That’s an interesting challenge. From what I know about startups, and CEOs of really small organizations, so often it’s something that they conjured up and it’s their brainchild and their baby and the idea of building up other people is not exactly what’s driving them. It’s putting this thing into the world and getting it to be fully used and to bring the value and the impact. So I feel like developing leaders is kind of an afterthought, if at all, and what you just suggested is having it as a strategic imperative that you proactively insert into your process?

Yeah, actually, some of the best startups that I’ve seen, the founders really are concerned with building a team and getting a group of people who can make this happen together and building in the right skills and giving people the opportunities for development. I’ve worked with a couple recently where even early on, they hired someone who would full time be sort of the people and operations person, where you would ordinarily think, “There’s no budget for that. When you’ve only got 20 or 30 people in the company, why do you need a full time people and operations in HR person?” But with an eye toward one of the most important things to make a startup successful is having a team that can execute and be creative and make it happen.

That’s right. You would agree that that’s not typical?

It’s not typical, but the ones I’ve seen do it, it’s really powerful.

It’s a game changer. I bet! Well, good, that’s very affirming, I like it. What is one specific action that TalentGrowers can take today, tomorrow, this week, that can help them upgrade their own leadership skills?

What I encourage aspiring leaders to do is look at those six areas that we talked about, the six fundamental practices, and then pick one that you think you’d like to sort of build your muscles with. Then look at where can you grasp some opportunity to do that? Where can you get involved? Either in your company or your community or in some other way. As we talked earlier, don’t wait for it to come to you and don’t sort of just hope over time you’ll get better at it. You have to be active and proactive, but don’t try to do all of it at once. Pick one and really try to do something with it.

And what should you use as your criteria for how you pick one? Should it be based on which one seems most interesting? Which one seems like your weakest point? Which one is lowest hanging fruit? What criteria should you use to pick one?

Well, I think part of this is knowing yourself. If you can put yourself into your discomfort zone just a little bit, that’s going to be more powerful for the learning. But don’t take something that you absolutely have no clue. Start with something where you have some chance of success and you can build your confidence and get better at, and where there are some people who can give you some feedback and mentor you and help you with it. Learning has to be almost like a team sport here. But you have to be your own coach to get yourself started onto the field.

Nice. That’s great. Ron, thank you so much. I know that TalentGrowers are going to want to learn more from you and about you. What’s the best place for them to go do that online or on social media – where should they follow you or get in touch?

An easy website with info is schafferresults.com. LinkedIn is a good place to find me and things I’ve written, and the HarvardBusinessReview.org site and Amazon has all the books listed.

Great. We will link to that. I really appreciate that you took time to share some of your insights and some of your research with the TalentGrowers, Ron. It’s been a great pleasure speaking with you.

This was fun.

OUTRO TalentGrowers, there was so much alignment between our conversation here and many of the things I’ve written about and spoken about with you before. That makes me feel good. Develop thy self! Pick up some kind of a challenge, a goal, a development goal, that puts you into that discomfort zone – not into the panic zone, just discomfort – and stretches you to grow into the next level of leadership skills. Don’t try to do everything at once, but as Ron said, choose one. Choose one to focus on, achieve that, then move onto the next one. Step by step, you can achieve it.

I would love to hear what you thought about this episode, as I always encourage you to keep the conversation going. You can leave a comment on the show notes page over on TalentGrow.com for this episode. You can also leave a voicemail using the little black tab on the right of every page on my website. You can hit me up on social media, Halelly Azulay, the TalentGrow Show, and I would love to hear from you. Feedback, what you’ve tried, what you’re planning to try, what you’d like to hear about next. Thanks for tuning in to the TalentGrow Show. I’m Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist here at TalentGrow, and until the next time, make today great.

Thanks for listening to the TalentGrow Show, where we help you develop your talent to become the kind of leader that people want to follow. For more information, visit TalentGrow.com.

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