Ep40: Why networking is not working and what to do instead with Derek Coburn

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Why networking is not working and what to do instead with Derek Coburn on Halelly Azulay's The TalentGrow Show Podcast

Do you hate networking? Does it sometimes feel like a huge waste of time? My guest, Derek Coburn, an entrepreneur who owns two successful businesses and the author of a book titled Networking is Not Working, has a contrarian point of view. Derek and I discuss how he approaches networking differently from common practice and advice out there. He explains how you can ensure you get (and give!) the most value in the time you spend on networking, and the reason why reviving your dormant ties might be a much smarter and more effective networking strategy than just going to more networking events. He gives super practical, tactical advice but also talks about mindset and an overall goal-oriented approach that can help you become an ‘un-networker extraordinaire’ just like him. Take a listen now and share with others!

What you'll learn:

  • What caused Derek to realize that he needed to change his approach to networking? (2:50)
  • What’s at the core of Derek’s approach to networking? How does curating come into this approach? (4:05)
  • What sets apart Derek’s un-networking organization, Cadre DC, from other networking organizations? (4:42)
  • What’s Derek secret for being able to manage two successful businesses side-by-side that actually gives you uplifting energy instead of draining you? (6:20)
  • What does Derek suggest you do if you want to start a side hustle – should you just go whole hog or build it in tandem on the side? Listen to find out. (7:30)
  • What is the main message of Derek’s book, Networking is Not Working? There’s a theme to the first third and an acronym, CONECTOR, for the second two thirds (9:48)
  • What’s unique about Derek’s approach to networking? (10:37)
  • If your networking efforts have been unsuccessful or unsatisfying, Derek offers advice to help you change your approach for the better (11:10)
  • Why should you focus more of your time reviving your dormant ties rather than going to networking events to meet new people? (Based on Derek’s great article in HBR.com) (12:05)
  • What people are going to be WAY more receptive to you reaching out after time has passed? (13:10)
  • What can create an opportunity to get greater exposure to new ideas, new people, and new ways of thinking? (13:51)
  • What’s a great process that helps Derek manage his networking efforts with reviving dormant ties? Derek suggest 3 specific tools that you could use, too (15:39)
  • What should you not do when you’re trying to contact someone after you’ve fallen out of touch for a while? What does Derek suggest instead? (He gets specific with his example) (17:03)
  • What’s a common mistake that Derek sees people making in their networking approach (Halelly is guilty!), and what you should do instead that’s a much better use of your time? (19:18)
  • Who are the best people to focus your networking energy and efforts on (so you don’t get overwhelmed, and so you have better efficiency and effectiveness)? (22:10)
  • Are you goal-driven when you go to events? (23:28)
  • What’s wrong with asking “how can I help you?” Derek gives another idea for ensuring that when you are reaching out to people with an offer to help, you could add even more value and avoid creating extra work for them – a really practical idea that will really enhance your personal brand and success with reviving dormant connections (24:04)
  • What’s exciting and in development in Derek’s world that will help him have more time for his family while adding the most value to the most people? (26:35)
  • Derek’s actionable advice that you can use to ratchet up your networking effectiveness right away? (29:53)

LEAVE A COMMENT: What have been your experiences with networking?  What are your reactions about this podcast episode? We’d love to know!

RESOURCES

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About Derek Coburn

Derek Coburn is the Co-founder of Cadre and a catalyst for connecting remarkable people. Derek is an author of Networking Is Not Working: Stop Collecting Business Cards and Start Making Meaningful Connections.

Derek began his career as a financial advisor in 1998 and built a successful wealth management practice which he still runs today – mainly by outworking everyone else.
He began using non-traditional networking strategies which included creating informal networking group consisting of his best clients and their top advisors to triple his revenue and improve the quality of his business and life.

Together with his wife, Melanie, his passion for connecting remarkable professionals led him to start an un-networking community in Washington DC called Cadre which currently supports over 100 CEOs and business leaders. Cadre was created as a way for top-notch professionals to connect and develop meaningful relationships, efficiently and effectively with the ultimate goal of working together to promote each other while adding value for existing clients and network.

Transcript

Announcer: Welcome to the TalentGrow Show, where you can get actionable results-oriented insight and advice on how to take your leadership, communication and people skills to the next level and become the kind of leader people want to follow. And now, your host and leadership development strategist, Halelly Azulay.

Halelly: Hey there, welcome back to the TalentGrow Show with episode 40, featuring a guest that I really enjoy speaking with, Derek Coburn. Entrepreneur, owner of two successful businesses and author of Networking is Not Working. Derek and I discuss how he approaches networking differently and how to ensure that you get – and give – the most value in the time that you spend on networking. We talk about the reason why reviving your dormant ties might be a much smarter and more effective networking strategy than just going to more networking events. Derek gets pretty granular with super practical, tactical advice, but he also talks about a mindset and overall goal-oriented approach that can help you become an un-networking extraordinaire like him. I hope that you enjoy the show. Thanks for tuning in, here we go.

Welcome back. This is Halelly Azulay and I’m your leadership development strategist and I’m here with my guest, Derek Coburn, who is the author of Networking is Not Working: Stop Collecting Business Cards and Start Making Meaningful Connections. He’s also the cofounder of CADRE, which is an un-networking community in Washington, D.C., that I used to hang out a lot back when I was in D.C., which is how I got lucky enough to meet Derek. Of course he is a unique individual to meet and I appreciate him even more, because he’s actually got all of this going on, plus he runs a successful financial advising business. I always love to talk to people who’ve got parallel careers going on. Derek, welcome to the TalentGrow Show.

Derek: Hi Halelly. Excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Halelly: It is my pleasure, and thank you for joining us. Before we get started with the meat and potatoes of talking about networking and un-networking and how to make more meaningful connections, tell us just a little bit about your professional journey. Where did you start and how did you end up where you are today?

Derek: Sure. So back in 1998, right out of college, I began my career as a financial advisor and became “successful” by the metrics of that industry, mainly by being very good at cold calling or said another way, very good at dealing with rejection. Built my business up. I finally got to the point where I could transition away from cold calling and into networking, and what I realized – this is going back around 2008 when the economy took a bit of a turn for the worst – I needed and wanted to spend more time with my existing wealth management clients. They were nervous, there was a lot going on. It left less time for me to network or focus on business development if you will. It made me realize just how inefficient traditional networking was in terms of going to the events and that I didn’t have a lot of time because I was, as my business grew, the value of my time increased. I wanted to make sure that if I was going to take time away from my business and away from my clients that it would be time spent well and not necessarily that I would get anything immediately out of it, but that I wouldn’t also just end up wasting three hours and having a couple of hors d’oeuvres and a glass of wine and then meeting people that wanted to start pitching me.

So I started experimenting with different types of networking activities, where I was hosting my own types of events and experiences that often times – and I think at the core of my approach to networking is the intersection of client appreciation and business development and that was a real focus for me – but I did a lot that worked pretty well. Wondered if we could scale it and build something new that was centered around networking, but curating people and bringing people together that had a pay-it-forward mindset that could show up in a way that were focused on adding value for other people and not pushing their own agenda and that’s what led to starting CADRE with my wife back in 2011.

Halelly: That is such a cool organization. It is a membership-based organization. Like you said, you’re curating the members and ensuring that people have the right kind of mindset and then in addition to having, I guess you guys have multiple meetings each month for different segments of your population to join together and support each other, but you also every once and a while – I’m not sure how frequently now – you bring in really well-known speakers and have this really classy, high-quality kind of event that people come together to learn and then connect with each other. Those are the kinds of events that back when you allowed non-members like me to join, I just found so, so high value.

Derek: Thanks for that. We’ve been very lucky in terms of the experience that we’ve been able to provide, not only for our members – we do these events about five or six times a year – but more important I think in terms of our ability to have access to great speakers on an ongoing basis, the experience that we provided the speaker. That has led to us getting these great introductions from speakers to their speaker buddies, who normally charge $25,000 to $75,000 for an hour-long keynote, we’ve never paid anybody what they’re worth, but we have ways to find alignment and create wins with our speakers. So that’s been a lot of fun and one point that I thought I would mention, just because you suggested that you like having people on that have a couple of different businesses, if you will, going on at the same time.

One question that I get a lot is, especially when I was writing my book, how do you do it all? How do you have two businesses and you’re writing a book? What I found very quickly about having two businesses going side-by-side is this unexpected ancillary benefit in the form of being able to really stick to my guns in terms of who is an ideal client or who is an ideal member in a way that I did not have the courage to do when I had just one business. So frequently, I get asked, “The people in CADRE are so great, or it says on your website, or I heard from a couple of your members, that the people are just top notch. But every organization out there says that they have top-notch people. Convince me that you’re not just sort of tossing it up there,” like a lot of us toss out the term customer, for example. It took me a couple of years to figure out how to respond to that question, and finally I realized it’s the revenue that I have coming in from my wealth management business that allows me to be indifferent to any one individual’s revenue for CADRE. And then vice versa. So I can really stick to my guns and really make sure that I’m only working with people that are a good fit, that get me and I like them and they totally buy into what we’re doing. What that leads to is you’re only interacting with people that you really enjoy interacting with on a regular basis. That’s not training, that’s uplifting. That gives you really good energy.

I thought I would just point that out, because I think that for anyone that is thinking about starting a side hustle or maybe moonlighting in something else, I think too many people view it as, “I need to stop what I’m doing now and then start this new thing,” but I think that leads to us right out of the gate feeling this pressure that we have to work with people no matter what. We’re going to make exceptions because we’re just starting out and we want to get a couple of paying clients. But if you are maintaining your current gig and focusing on just the key things you need to do there, while you’re building out this other thing, you can say no, I think with more confidence, and wait until you have this good group of just amazing people that you’re working with before you ditch the thing that you’re doing now.

Halelly: I think that’s fantastic advice. And you’re right. In general, not related necessarily to the kind of business that you’re doing, but whatever it is that you’re thinking about maybe starting, a lot of times people think in such binary ways and the comfort and security that you have from maintaining your current job while building this thing on the side allows you to be choosy and to do it the right way, rather than to do it the desperate way. That’s what I’m hearing. That’s excellent advice, and I totally agree. It’s something that a lot of people talk to me when they’re sort of thinking about maybe starting their own business, not sure. Do it in the moonlighting kind of way is a good way to start.

So I hope, and I will link to your book in the show notes because I think everybody should buy a copy and read it, and we’re not going to be able to replicate everything, all the goodness that’s in it here in this short podcast, but if you could just give us the high level, get people’s appetites whet for reading it, what would you say is the main message of your book, who do you think is going to really benefit from it?

Derek: I think that the first third of my book is me sort of making the argument for why traditional networking, especially going to the large catch-all networking events, are not a good use for most people’s time. And the second two-thirds are me walking through an acronym that I created called connector, which are just different things that you can do instead. The person or the people that will benefit the most from it is really almost anyone who already knows and feels that the time they spent at networking events is not a good use of their time. But, also, anyone that has an existing group of clients, an existing business where they are generating reoccurring revenue, because for me, I try to combine the activities of client appreciation and client service with business development, so that if I do anything, and I’m not getting a new client out of it because that’s not my goal for doing it, my goal for doing it is to provide a great experience for my existing client or existing connection and deepen that relationship. But it’s also getting me on the radar of a lot of perspective clients that I likely would not have had the opportunity to meet.

Just to take it a step further and broaden that a little bit, I would just say that anyone that feels like their networking efforts have not really been working, what I’ve found and what I touch on a lot in my book is that there’s just a lot of opportunity and in a lot less painful way when it comes to networking where you can be focused on the folks that you’ve met over the years, that maybe you still keep in touch with them, maybe it’s been a little while since you connected with them. But I think too many people, regardless of why they’re networking or what they’re looking to accomplish, they’re going to these events because they think that’s what they’re supposed to do. In reality they could be spending that time deepening relationships with people that they already know and like and everyone could benefit by just a little bit more time invested in those people.

Halelly: I love that. You recently had a great article that I shared with my network in the Harvard Business Review on their website that was called “Don’t waste your time on networking events,” and you gave several really actionable suggestions in there. One of them I wanted to focus on you just mentioned, which was reviving your dormant ties. This is really wise. I hope the listeners are really paying attention to this, because I also find this a lot in my work, where people are thinking about the word networking. They’re just sort of thinking about continuing to tack on more new people onto their sphere. Then just like you add someone on and you move on and you add a new person and you move on, and you really have no relationship with no one. You just kind of have names and numbers, and all of those people could potentially be great connections if you took the time to connect.

Derek: Yeah, and thanks for bringing this up, because I like talking about it and I think that there’s certainly some potential value to be had in the people you mentioned, but you know, I think for a lot of us, we have people, professional colleagues, people from our personal lives that you used to connect with on a regular basis, and we just haven’t for whatever reason. In reaching back out to some of these people, they are going to be way more receptive to hearing from you than the person that if you met somebody at a networking event at year ago and you never followed up, they may have their guard up. There’s probably a good reason why maybe you didn’t follow up with them in the first place, but there was a study done that Adam Grant commented on in an article which was linked up in that Harvard Business Review article. I forget the exact number, but people were significantly more likely to get an introduction for a new job or a meaningful connection or even in some cases getting referrals from dormant ties, from people that they did not keep in touch with on a regular basis and the ideas that for most of us, we run in the same circles, we’re consuming the same information, we’re very limited in terms of how wide a net we are casting when we come to information and people, and so all the sudden, we start pinging people that don’t run in our circles, that are not friends with the same people we’re friends with, that are in completely different industries, and it creates an opportunity to open up exposure to new ideas, new people and new ways of thinking.

Halelly: This is an awesome perspective and actually something we talked about more with another podcast guest who I think I met because of you, Michael Simmons.

Derek: Oh cool, yeah.

Halelly: Because he likes to talk about how you can expand your perspectives and become really original if you’re exposed to ideas from outside of other people who think and do the same thing you do. Which is what you described. That’s very, very good information. I know that you guide people a lot on this and obviously you’ve written on it, so can you give us a specific example, a story or just maybe a how-to kind of example that helps people concretize what you’re suggesting they do? Do you have a story about someone who did that and how it worked for them?

Derek: With dormant ties?

Halelly: Yeah.

Derek: I mean, look, I’ve used it with success on a number of occasions, and I even have a process for it that I turn to on a regular basis maybe once a month or so. I use a really great CRM called Contactually, For most people, they wouldn’t use it as a CRM, they’d use it as an overlay to their CRM, but for me it works great.

Halelly: And let’s just stop for a second – CRM, for those who don’t know, is client relationship management. It’s a software that you use for that.

Derek: Like a sales force. One of the, I mean, I love Contactually, it’s probably the best software I’ve seen in terms of its effectiveness in helping you maintain and deepen relationships, the relationships that you have. But one of the things I can do is I can sort my contacts by last time contacted, and do that in reverse. So I can see every contact that I have that it’s just really pulled in from my email and I’ll go back two years. I can go in and scan and see what they’re up to. LinkedIn lets you do this as well. I forget exactly what you have to do in LinkedIn, but there’s a way in LinkedIn that you can sort by when you became connected with them on LinkedIn and then do the reverse of that. So I do think that from a lot of my own personal experiments, I think that the key is, A, don’t wait to do this until you need something, because they can see through that. Just do a couple at a time and make sure that initial message is just short and sweet and to the point. Because I’ll get hit up from people – as I’m sure we all do – that I haven’t heard from in like two years and it’s almost always like seven paragraphs and six links to things they’re working on and they want my feedback. I just ignore them in almost every instance. But I think the key is, “Hey, can’t believe it’s been three years since we last spoke. How are things going with you? How is your husband? Are you still,” if you’re not on LinkedIn and you’re not sure if they’re still at the same job, you could ask that question. But, “Hey, I would love to see what you’re up to, in case there’s a way I might be able to add value for you.” Short and sweet.

The other reason I like that is there are some people that may have literally fallen off the face of the earth. You don’t want to take a lot of your time to write this really thoughtful, long email to somebody if they don’t have that email address anymore. Or if they hopped on the crazy train two years ago. I kind of like to see the people that I think look interesting that maybe in a position that I could add value for them, and eventually maybe vice versa. But keeping it short and sweet and casual is what I found works by far better than any other approach.

Halelly: And I really am glad that you highlight the idea that you shouldn’t ask them for anything at this point. If you’re reviving a dormant tie the last thing that’s going to revive anything is if you come to someone that you’ve not taken the time or care to maintain a connection with and then have some kind of an ask of them, right? It should be very casual and asking for nothing, or offering help if anything.

Derek: 100 percent.

Halelly: I love it. Any other really common mistakes you see people making in terms of how they’re maintaining connections or building new connections, where they’re just doing it wrong?

Derek: I would say I think too many people are just excited or I don’t even know if excited is the right word. But there’s a lot of people that focus on networking and going out and meeting new people and they think they need to do this because everyone else is doing it. To really take a step back and ask yourself, “Have I gotten to know everybody in my life and in my business world as well as I could know them? The people that I already know would be a good use of my time and my attention and my energy.” And so I think that there’s a lot of reasons why one might not want to spend their time going to a networking event, but one of them is … I’d be interested in, “Okay, great, what about the networking event you went to six months ago where you did happen to make this great connection, and you did have a follow-up phone conversation and follow-up coffee and that went really well. How often have you contacted that person? Have you not followed through with them? Have they not followed through with you? And is there …” I think before anybody should go to their next networking event, they should say, “Are there other people in my world that I could spend the next two hours reaching out to find ways to add value for them, catching up in general, seeing what they’re up to, sharing a new idea that I’m working on, asking for their feedback. All of those things, I think, are nine times out of 10 going to be a better use of your time than just going to an event where you literally don’t know who is going to be there, who you’re going to run into, what types of people are going to start conversations with you, etc.

Halelly: I’m hearing in what you’ve just described part of a really tactical suggestion, which is if you’re going to spend a time going to an event, just take that amount of time and schedule it for maintaining current relationships instead. Doing different things during the same amount of time. I was going to ask you about this because what else would you suggest … I have to tell you, from my perspective, I’ve just as guilty of that as anyone. I connect with someone, I have a great connection, and then I do sometimes let that go dormant. I have the idea when it’s not a good time for me to actually act on it, or I don’t really have a routine built in. So it sounds like a CRM is one way to help you get your self around that, but what else might people do to just help themselves routinize this?

Derek: I just think that it all depends on, again, I think there’s a fine line between not waiting to do this because you have an immediate need. And not being selfish about it. But also not doing it without giving it any thought at all. I think the best people to focus on are those that you feel like they’re in a position where you feel like you could potentially add value for them, either now or at some point in the future, and vice versa. I think that running around and dealing with all different types of people and all different types of industries, that’s a lot to keep up with. But if you’re interacting with people that are dealing with the same types of issues as you, or the same types of clients as you, or the same types of colleagues as you, and there may be experiences that you’ve had that you can improve their lives or make it easier for them, if it comes up in their world or vice versa, I think that’s … I try to identify the people that I think I could probably help in one way, shape or form, who are also likely in a position where they might be able to help me at some point down the line.

Halelly: Great, so narrow down the list and maybe be more selective or curate that.

Derek: Exactly. And again, just really sort of focus, because if you’re just going to networking events and you’re meeting people and you’re collecting business cards and you’re not following up with any of them, then what are you going for? What exactly is someone looking to accomplish if they go to an event? A, If they haven’t even thought about why they’re going or what would make it a good use of their time, but B, if they are meeting people that are somewhat interesting but then not following up, not getting to know them any better, I think that’s the key.

Maybe another idea, I’m not sure if this will answer your question or not, but I do not think that we should be asking people how we can help them. Because when people ask me, “How can I help you?” then the work and the burden is on me. Now I know you a little bit and you’re a nice person and I appreciate that you’re asking this, but I have to stop what I’m doing to figure out how you might be able to help me, which most people are not going to do. If we are going to take a more narrow approach in terms of who we’re following up with and who we’re trying to get to know better, spending a couple minutes on their website or a couple minutes seeing their social media updates and what they have going on and offering, “Hey, if you’re still working on this, I would like to learn more, because I might be able to connect you to a few people that are in that world.” At least you’ve made a little bit of an effort and got the conversation going to where you’re not just getting this blanket request of how can I help?

Halelly: Yeah, great. Or I know you know James Altucher, he suggests you think of 10 ideas for them, right? Send them 10 ideas that you think that they could use to expand on or to increase the effectiveness of whatever they’re working on.

Derek: That’s one of my favorite strategies, actually. And it doesn’t have to be 10. I mean, if it’s 10 if you write down 10 then the chances are pretty good … he does say 10, you’re correct about that. But it could just be one or two. At least the people that you’re looking to develop a relationship with, especially if they’re the type of people that could add value to your life at some point down the line, that’s going to really stand out. I’m not getting this canned email where they say, “How can I help you?” They actually have thought a little bit about my business and my situation and whether it’s an amazing idea or not, they put in the effort and they gave me something to think about .

Halelly: That wins you a ton of credit. Talk about enhancing your personal brand in that person’s eyes, right there. So you’re reviving a connection with such positive impression that if nothing else, right there, you are creating a valuable reviving, rekindling of that connection. Love it. Well, we always end with a specific actionable piece of advice, but before we do, what’s new and exciting on your horizon? What project or experience or product or service or what do you have going right now that’s exciting you?

Derek: I recently dipped my toe in the world of creating online content, an online course that went okay for me, but I learned some things and the book has been very well received. I’ve had a lot of people reach out and I know there’s more information that I could provide people that will help them that would also put more money in my pocket. I have always … I’m really hoping, I think, that I can figure out a way to do it by creating online content so that I don’t have to travel all the time to do speaking gigs. I’ve got two young boys and just love my family time. I’ve said no to a lot of the speaking offers that I’ve received in the past because I’ve got the wealth management business and I’ve got CADRE. Those are both based in D.C. I think the best compliment any speaker can receive, if they’re speaking, is to have people come up to them afterwards and say, “That was great. I want more. How can I get more?” Obviously I’m not referring to people that are selling from the stage, but if you are a consultant or if you have information products, then you might be more willing to travel to Utah for a day and a half and get paid five or 10 grand to speak to a group if the potential for that is there.

For me, I started getting a couple of speaking gigs, immediately my ego liked it, I thought I wanted to do it and I realized if I’m going to be away from my family for a couple of days and my time and attention is going to be away from my other two businesses, then is it really a good use of my time? Having said all of this, the course and some of the people I met in launching that have led to me getting some more interesting speaking offers that are offering more money than I’ve been offered in the past and the audience is one that I think would benefit from the course and some of the materials that I’ve put together. I’m sort of at a point now where I think it’s exciting. It’s also nerve racking because I think I’m at my best when I know exactly where I’m going and I can just hunker down and make all the magic happen. But I’m at a point now where I’m sort of being open and I’m trying to be in a posture to see where I should be going and how I can add the most value for the most people in the world of networking, if you will.

Halelly: Cool. Well, it sounds very exciting and you’re right, stuff comes out that you could never have anticipated and you always have to make that cost benefit analysis, based on your goals. Sounds like you’re clear about your goals, it’s just a matter of which strategy will take you there in the best way.

Derek: Yup.

Halelly: I like it. So speaking of goals and strategies, what would you suggest that listeners can do, right away – today, this week – that you think will be very specific and can take their own networking skillfulness up a level?

Derek: I would just say that maybe sort of piggybacking on a previous answer of mine, which is to really, if you had not done this before, I would encourage you to take a step back and say, “If I’m networking, if I’m going to go to events, or I am going to reach out to people that I haven’t talked to in a while, who are the people that I want to focus on? And what is my goal? I think one of the main reasons why networking is not working is that the majority of people have a completely different definition. Not only are we defining it differently in terms of I’m networking to look for a new job, I’m networking to look for a new client, I’m networking to develop relationships. Well, if you throw all these people in a room together for different reasons, then it’s not likely anyone is going to come out of there and say, “This was a good use of my time.” So I think even take a step back and say, “Why am I doing this?” And it sort of ties in, I forget who said this, I heard it a couple of years ago on a podcast, said that some of the best professionals and the best marketers these days are just the ones who are able to identify the people that they can best serve, both now and in the future, and just to start finding ways to add value for those people so that if and when you want to change careers or you want to switch businesses or you develop a new offering, you’re going to have a lot more people that are open and receptive to hearing about what you’ve got than you would if you hadn’t really spent the time and focused in on who you should be investing your time in.

Halelly: I love it. Great. Thank you so much Derek. I really enjoyed speaking with you today. I think that folks have probably, I’m sure they have enjoyed listening to you. How can they get more of all that greatness and keep in touch with you?

Derek: A good place, they can go to derekcoburn.com and that’s where they can find a link to my book, they can sign up for my email newsletter where I am constantly sharing new ideas and case studies and giving people different things to think about. Hopefully sharing good resources as well. I hang out on Twitter a decent amount if people want to reach out to me there. It’s @CADREDC.

Halelly: Excellent. And I will link to all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time, Derek.

Derek: My pleasure Halelly. It’s been awesome.

Halelly: It’s been awesome for me as well and I hope that you make today great.

Derek: Thank you. You too.

Halelly: Awesome advice, right? So now it’s up to you. Get smarter and more strategic about networking and get going right away. Don’t wait until some later time. And definitely don’t wait until you need something from someone to start networking the right way. Also, don’t forget to download the free tool that I’ve created for you, listeners of the show, “10 mistakes that leaders make and how to avoid them.” As well as don’t forget to leave a rating and a review in iTunes if you get a chance. Listen to this awesome recent review that we got from a listener. It’s a great success story that I love, love, love. She writes,” I am working on being more assertive, so I listened to the podcast about radical transparency on my way to work. That afternoon, an opportunity to have a fierce conversation presented itself. Normally I would have festered over the incident and vented to a coworker. Instead, I addressed the issue in a professional manner directly with the person involved. The conversation was so productive and felt amazing. I have an even deeper level of respect for that person and the feeling is mutual. Thank you Halelly. I have become a better person, personally and professionally, but listening to your shows.” Isn’t that amazing? Thank you so much to this reviewer and thank you all for listening. I appreciate you. Make today great.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to the TalentGrow Show, where we help you develop your talent to become the kind of leader that people want to follow. For more information, visit TalentGrow.com.

Don't forget to LEAVE A RATING/REVIEW ON iTUNES! It’s easy to do (here’s how to do it in 4 easy steps). Thank you!!